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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 16, 2008 10:57am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Thanks all for chiming in...hope you didn't overdub

For what it's worth, I don't see the "problem" with it either, ie, overdubbing, BUT I will say that it detracts a bit from the "best live band" label in at least some sense...

What would we say if we found out that they overdubbed Jerry's leads--eliminating any mistakes, etc.?

So, I understand it is just part of the biz, but really, if you make your mark on the "live" label, it just seems to me you should stick to it on all levels...

I used to argue that LiveDead and S&R 71 VS. Eur 72 proved that the "live vocals" were better (ie, I liked the vocal sound on LDead and S&R 71 better than Eur 72) but have to rethink that one now...!

Thanks all!

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Poster: SkyDawg Date: Sep 17, 2008 1:04am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Thanks all for chiming in...hope you didn't overdub

They DID edit Jerry's solo on "So Many Roads" from the So Many Roads box set and cut out a whole solo.

Europe '72 was heavily overdubbed in some places and virtually untouched on other tracks like Brown Eyed Women and others. I once listened to every song from Europe 72 from the official release and compared each one to the raw recording from the show it was actually taken from. The bulk of Europe '72 was taken mainly from Paris and final London shows (with a couple of exceptions). When played back to back the difference is noticeable on many tracks.
The most disturbing edits on Europe '72 to my ears (being a huge Pigpen lover) is that Pigpen's organ parts were nearly totally edited out as far as I can hear. Personally I enjoy Pigpen's keyboard work and felt he added a lot of color to the sound. I won't say he was great on keyboards, but he could play the keyboards better than people give him credit for. He just wasn't particularly interested in playing them!

One interesting fact is that when the Dead did the studio overdubs for Europe '72 they used the exact same equipment in the same setup as on stage with the same microphones and taping system to make it sound as seamless as possible. The biggest difference was Jerry's lead vocal on Morning Dew from 5/26/72. Jerry's voice was pretty worn out by the tours end and the vocal overdub on Europe '72 was a welcome one to my ears. It's probably my favorite Dew.

Some of the Skull & Roses tracks don't even sound like the actual performance when I compare the tapes to the album release. I don't care for that album too much. I also find Europe '72 very sterile sounding compared to the raw tapes. Taking Pigpen out of the mix was a mistake IMHO.

This post was modified by SkyDawg on 2008-09-17 08:04:21

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Poster: Styrofoam Cueball Date: Sep 16, 2008 7:07pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Thanks all for chiming in...hope you didn't overdub

I like the E72 "Dew" as well...but I think Jerry's voice was sped up. On the vinyl album, I could see speeding up the song to save space, but it sounds sped up on the CD as well...the fact that it's an over-dub partly explains why it sounds weird, but...does it sound sped up to anyone else? What show is that "Dew" from originally, and is it here on the Archive?

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Poster: Morning Dewd Date: Sep 16, 2008 7:15pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Thanks all for chiming in...hope you didn't overdub

http://www.archive.org/details/gd1972-05-26.sbd.smith.94452.sbeok.flac16

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Poster: Styrofoam Cueball Date: Sep 16, 2008 11:11pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Thanks all for chiming in...hope you didn't overdub

Thank you muchly! Now that I listen to it, it seems a lot of altering was done to this Dew...filtering out Pig's wonderful keyboard part, eliminating Jer's raspy vocal...etc. I think the "Sugar Magnolia" from E72 was enhanced a lot too, for what it's worth... ;-)

This post was modified by Styrofoam Cueball on 2008-09-17 06:11:04

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Poster: SkyDawg Date: Sep 17, 2008 1:02am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Thanks all for chiming in...hope you didn't overdub

Phil's bass was also completely overdubbed on the Europe 72 Morning Dew. I just got through playing it and on the actual tapes Phil just bombs the place during Morning Dew. The album version is more subdued and "stately".

My favorite story about this Dew is in Dennis McNally's book "Long Strange Trip" when Wizard,who recorded this show tells how he was flying on acid and left the recording truck to fix something during this performance of Morning Dew. He said that Jerry actually had tears rolling down his face while playing this Morning Dew! He was " crying like a fire in the sun" I suppose. Jerry noticed Wizard on stage and realized nobody was monitoring the tapes in the truck outside! They exchanged knowing glances and Wizard listened to Morning Dew before returning to the recording truck. Betty was taking a well deserved night off, being the last show of the tour. The band had broken out Visine bottles of LSD for the final Europe 72 show and everyone was dosed.

Months later when the Dead were in the studio assembling Europe 72 Wizard told Jerry that the Morning Dew had recorded perfectly in spite of Wizard wandering onstage rather than attending to the recorder... Cool story. Jerry hadn't forgotten what happened... "Hey Jerry, the Morning Dew is definitely happening" is what Wizard recalled telling Garcia to their mutual delight. It made the final album selection and the rest is history.

This post was modified by SkyDawg on 2008-09-17 08:02:50

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